2006/11/24
I discovered that when you use this routine to change the orientation of a drawing for plotting purposes the routine will apparently default to a "Counterclockwise" setting when the routine is finished. Consequently when you revert to further calculations after using this routine any direction entries will be treated in the Ctr-clkwise direction.
For those of us surveyors who like to work in clockwise bearings or azimuths it is very frustrating to have to deal with this unwelcome change.
In order to correct the unrequested change it in now necessary to go into the routine to manually change back to clockwise and to correct the direction so that north and east are really north and east.
Also in that routine the direction that you enter is automatically flipped as it exits the routine so that in order to get 270d in the screen on exit you have to type in 90d.
I further discovered that if you go as far as toggling on the Surveyor View option from the Mstools menu and then cancel without proceeding the program has modified (at least in the one file I tried) the 270d to 257d 31' 17". I have no idea why it would change this angle by 12d28'43". This is the kind of scenario that you may execute when you change your mind or realize that you are in the wrong routine so the routine should be changed to introduce whatever changes are necessary closer to the end of the routine.
Also if it is necesary in the routine to revert to ctr-clkwise to deal with the program then it should at least remember the settings and return them to what they were before you used the routine.
Others may at least appreciate what action is triggering this unwanted change of settings.
drawing view rotation anomolies
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Glen Cameron
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:18 pm
- Location: Corbeil, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Surveyor View
If you cancel the Surveyors View command, at pretty much any point - it simply stops and no change is made. If you have picked 2 points on screen then it will make the change based upon the picks. This is based upon the default settings for the units. It needs them to be set to the defaults to work correctly. User defined units may cause problems with the way this routine works. The routine does not save the user define settings, so it can not reset them at the completion of the routine. I can put the request in for future consideration by the development team.
The only CAD command the units really affects is the rotate command. Pretty much everything else should be done via Survey commands instead of CAD commands, when it comes to survey related work. Example: CADLines is a great routine for entering in and drafting linework using survey methods of entry and is as easy if not easier than using the CAD method of drawing lines at specific distances in specific directions. You have the ability to set new survey points at the ends of the lines or simply draw lines.
Cheers,
The only CAD command the units really affects is the rotate command. Pretty much everything else should be done via Survey commands instead of CAD commands, when it comes to survey related work. Example: CADLines is a great routine for entering in and drafting linework using survey methods of entry and is as easy if not easier than using the CAD method of drawing lines at specific distances in specific directions. You have the ability to set new survey points at the ends of the lines or simply draw lines.
Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
City of North Bay, Ontario
2006/11/25
Glen:
Your explanation of how the routine works answers why the the units commands reverted to the default settings (i.e. ctr-clkwise direction). However you did not comment on why the rotation unit was changed to a wierd amount when the routine was exited prematurely. If the unit was simply resetting all the default units then this angle should have been 90d.
I am not at my office computer so I can't find out how the cadline command works. I will try that when I am back at the office to see if that will provide a suitable alternative to the cad commands that we certainly find very useful on many occasions.
As a user I will offer my comments on how our brain works and where the users philosophy may differ from the progam providers. I trust you will consider this philosophy if different from the provider.
You are offering routines in your program to be used by those that prefer to but you are also suggesting in print that we probably shouldn't use them. If you are going to put them in your programs then Microsurvey should be making a serious attempt to see that they function as your advertising indicates. This particular routine has not worked well as far back as 2002.
Your comment that the units settings does affect the rotate command concerns me in that this command is one that we , in our office, use a lot. In order for it to work as it should for us we need to be operating clockwise. If I have to revert to default settings then I will not be able to use the rotate command effectively.
In regards to the Surveyors view needing to function in the default state shows the need to remember the current settings and return them to same after the routine is complete. After all if you are providing options for the user to use different settings then you should also be providing opportunities to restore them after your routine is complete.
I have some programming experience so I understand the basic principle of accomplishing this result. A simple subroutine of remembering the appropriate settings at the start of the routine before it resests the defaults would allow the routine to work as it should and at the end of the routine the prior settings could then be reset. Providing a further option to reset these values if a premature exit of the program is encountered would look after that scenario.
Glen:
Your explanation of how the routine works answers why the the units commands reverted to the default settings (i.e. ctr-clkwise direction). However you did not comment on why the rotation unit was changed to a wierd amount when the routine was exited prematurely. If the unit was simply resetting all the default units then this angle should have been 90d.
I am not at my office computer so I can't find out how the cadline command works. I will try that when I am back at the office to see if that will provide a suitable alternative to the cad commands that we certainly find very useful on many occasions.
As a user I will offer my comments on how our brain works and where the users philosophy may differ from the progam providers. I trust you will consider this philosophy if different from the provider.
You are offering routines in your program to be used by those that prefer to but you are also suggesting in print that we probably shouldn't use them. If you are going to put them in your programs then Microsurvey should be making a serious attempt to see that they function as your advertising indicates. This particular routine has not worked well as far back as 2002.
Your comment that the units settings does affect the rotate command concerns me in that this command is one that we , in our office, use a lot. In order for it to work as it should for us we need to be operating clockwise. If I have to revert to default settings then I will not be able to use the rotate command effectively.
In regards to the Surveyors view needing to function in the default state shows the need to remember the current settings and return them to same after the routine is complete. After all if you are providing options for the user to use different settings then you should also be providing opportunities to restore them after your routine is complete.
I have some programming experience so I understand the basic principle of accomplishing this result. A simple subroutine of remembering the appropriate settings at the start of the routine before it resests the defaults would allow the routine to work as it should and at the end of the routine the prior settings could then be reset. Providing a further option to reset these values if a premature exit of the program is encountered would look after that scenario.
artb
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Glen Cameron
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:18 pm
- Location: Corbeil, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Surveyor View
I am not a programmer so, unfortunately, I can not tell you what the code is doing internally and why the angle goes to something odd, or how easy is it to program inside of a CAD Engine in the Windows Environment.
I know the routine works perfectly when the units are left alone (as we set them when you started the job).
The CAD Rotate command works very well when the units are not touched - the only thing is the direction when entering in the angle. This is not a big item and a simple "-" sign will give a clockwise rotation, without having to modify the CAD units. I have been doing it this way since day one (1987) with AutoCAD and have never had a problem.
I have already submitted the update in the routine, as you have suggested, so hopefully it will see some changes in the future.
Cheers,
I know the routine works perfectly when the units are left alone (as we set them when you started the job).
The CAD Rotate command works very well when the units are not touched - the only thing is the direction when entering in the angle. This is not a big item and a simple "-" sign will give a clockwise rotation, without having to modify the CAD units. I have been doing it this way since day one (1987) with AutoCAD and have never had a problem.
I have already submitted the update in the routine, as you have suggested, so hopefully it will see some changes in the future.
Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Alex Leonard
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:47 pm
- Location: Kona, Hawaii
Surveyor's view wierdness
artb,
I don't want to add fuel to a fire, but thought I should use this topic to mention a related piece of experience (for others following this thread).
The short version is: be careful with "Surveyor's View" - except for final layout of finished drawings.
Many of the Microsurvey higher level functions such as the surface routines, the road-design routines and the site-design routines do not work predictably if the plan is in Surveyor's View.
I love the functionality of the command, but one needs to be aware of its limitations, so just switch back and forth a lot.
Alex.
I don't want to add fuel to a fire, but thought I should use this topic to mention a related piece of experience (for others following this thread).
The short version is: be careful with "Surveyor's View" - except for final layout of finished drawings.
Many of the Microsurvey higher level functions such as the surface routines, the road-design routines and the site-design routines do not work predictably if the plan is in Surveyor's View.
I love the functionality of the command, but one needs to be aware of its limitations, so just switch back and forth a lot.
Alex.