2009 ... Crashes Repeatedly

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2009 ... Crashes Repeatedly

Postby RJ Breedlove » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:55 am

I have been editing an AsBuilt Topo for three days. It should have only taken two at the most and I still have another day to complete it. My problem are the multiple crahses that 2009 seems to be stuck with.
Mouse Operations:
I use my left button for choosing line/text/objects that I wish to edit. I then use the right button to choose the function I wish to apply to the object chosen. (rotate/delete/move/fillet/etc)
I have figured out that if I accidentally choose multiple tasks, or if I choose a task too quickly, the program simply bails me out of it.
(Yes, Glen, I have been sending those *%@!&% reports when I can remember not to hit Do Not Send out of frustration.)
Sometimes I have the program crash for unknown reasons but always I can remember the crash following a choice click with my mouse.
I'm using a corded optical USB Microsoft Brand mouse.

Any other users experiencing a higher than normal incidences of crashes?

Do any of you techie types have suggestions as to hardware that might not get confused? I'm using Windows XP Pro Service pack 3; A computer with 3.25 GB Ram, INtel Dual Core CPU running at 1.86 GHz, dual monitors with Radeon X800 Series Controller's.
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CRASHES IN 2009

Postby Richard Sands » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:57 pm

No answer, but your mention of dual monitors makes me ask do Microsurvey do ALL their testing on dual monitors?
I know I found issue with my dual monitors and it will do something on the primary monitor and not on the secondry monitor (2008 and now 2009).
It'd be good (preferred) that ALL development/testing is undertaken on dual monitor setups, so that we who use them know that when we report issues that can't be reproduced on their machines, it maybe due to the monitor(s).
Not sure how many run dual monitors but there must be plenty who do and would justify ensuring development/testing is on dual monitor machines.
regards
Richard
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Postby Jason Poitras » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:42 pm

I would say 95% of the time all our tests are done with dual monitor systems. All staff at our company have dual monitor stations. In our opinion, working without dual monitors is not very productive.

Keep sending in the crash reports.
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Crashes

Postby raconsultnv » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:55 am

Try alias key code commamds, not the optical mouse. When I click my mouse right/left to quickly over different commads, the program seems to crash more than MS2004, my old stand-by.
RA
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2009 crashes

Postby John Newberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:52 am

We have been having problems with crashes, but I was thinking it had something to do with the combination of linework and images. Now I am not sure. I have had to go back to 2008 to get around the problem and wait for someone to figure out what is causing it.
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Today

Postby RJ Breedlove » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:57 am

It has been crashing immediately after using the scroll wheel to zoom out. Three times so far today with that one.
I might consider returning to earlier version, but I'm the only operator in this office having this problem. Other users (2) have not reported any problems except for one print crash.
I tend to work faster, but have been slowing down today to watch my finger movements. The scroll wheel causing the crash is new.
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crashes

Postby John Newberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:16 am

We haven't had problems using the scroll wheel until an image has been brought into a drawing. We are using 2 monitors with optical mouse (one wireless, and one corded) but once it starts crashing it doesn't seem to matter what I do after that, it just keeps crashing.
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Postby fjt_aus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:59 pm

I have been having this exact same problem with 2008 since forever. I have always just put it down to my (super)speed with the mouse, possibly a less than wonderful graphics card(?) or a combination of both.

This also occurs for me on two different computers (office and home), each with only one monitor.

I have only just installed 2009 so I won't know if it still happens until I start clocking up some serious time with it.
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2008 works fine

Postby RJ Breedlove » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:08 am

I have just switched back to MsCad 2008 and have not had wny problems with the mouse causing a crash with the same drawing. So I can eliminate the drawing as being the source of the problem, I can also eliminate the mouse as the problem. So,
That must mean that 2009 has a quirk in it for me.
I hope someone with Glen and Darcy's team can isolate this and issue a fix.
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Postby Glen Cameron » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:34 am

With so few people having the crashing issues, the error reports that are sent to Microsoft are the best tools we have to help us determine what is ultimately wrong with the CAD engine, for those machines. As we continue to recieve these reports we look for patterns and check the code to see what can be found and fixed. This does take time, so a fix may take a bit - but be assured we are working on it as fast as we can, to try and solve all issues that are reported. When we have something to issue, we will of course post another service patch for the program. Not all issues can be fixed immediately, so some may find the patch will not solve their specific issue, where it may fix others. We will continue to work on all issues, and the more error reports that we recieve from clients via the Microsoft reporting option, the better it is for all.
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Thanks Glen!

Postby RJ Breedlove » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:34 am

I have been trying to remember to send in the reports. I had gotten in the habit of not sending anything to them, since I dont entirely trust their security. However, in order to assist, I have been sending them in.
I beleive that this issue is not isolated to just me, as there appear to be others. But this issue has caused me to return to 2008 and not use 2009 for which I paid dearly to have access to. I consider this an issue of higher than normal importance, and one that deserves special attention.
Let me repeat, MsCad 2009 is of NO use to me personally. I cannot complete a single drawing session for more than 45 minutes without having this crash problem.
I've tried to be as complete with the data in order to provide you with as much information and clue as to what is going on here.
Thanks Again for your attention to this.
Robert Breedlove
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Postby Richard Sands » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:43 pm

Haven't had crashes in 2009 but work in layout mode is weird at times.
I have a cordless logitech laser mouse and zoom and pan functions or just editing in the layout window (not model space within the viewport) causes the screen view to dance about. Probably moves the view half a screen left then jumps back to normal.
I have also had weird things happen when editing inside the viewport in layout mode. Screen goes blank (black) and stray lines appear on screen. A 'refresh' restores part, but only a quick toggle back to model space clears the antics.
Have reported this but wonder if others are having odd behaviour in this area also.
Running dual screens with MSCAD on secondry monitor.
regards
Richard
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Postby surveyor6925 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:40 am

I've had the same problem. Scares me that I might lose the whole dwg. Still do a lot of work in 2008 then transfer to 2009 for some items better handled by 2009.
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Reply to Richard and #6925

Postby RJ Breedlove » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:26 am

I too have had screen problems with the drawing in Layout mode. I've also had the problem of the screen going blank while performing a modify command. Both in 2008 and in Layout Mode of 2009. I dont know if it is a video memory issue or what but it first appeared for me in MsCad 2008.

While I have two screens, I quickly learned to keep MsCad on the Primary monitor while using the secondary monitor for other programs or submenus of MsCad, like Coordinate and Traverse Listing window.

I have found very few items in 2009 that work better than in 2008. I just can't risk losing my work while trying to utilize the 'new' 2009.

Glen did call me and assure me that they are trying to identify the exact code that causes the crashes and they are very aware of the flaw.
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Additional Observations

Postby RJ Breedlove » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:11 pm

The more I've used MsCad 2009, the more I'm becoming convinced that the crashes occur more often near an 'autosave' trigger. I can hardly get far enough along for the drawing to actually autosave successfully. Sometimes it does, but if it is going to crash, it will do so near an autosave time.
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Postby Richard Sands » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:44 pm

Does Microsurvey automatically pick up these error messages as sent to Microsoft?
I had several 2009 crashes with tiffs yesterday. One the job opened the tiff appeared then immediately it crashed. Reopened and got a bit of work done then it crashed.
Both times I sent a report to Microsoft.
Are we supposed to also send in something to MSCAD?
I also suspect the scroll wheel - I have a Logitech MX Revolution cordless.
In Layout mode it does very strange things at times when scrolling.
regards
Richard

An interesting thing - after the last crash just now, if I open the drawing in 2008 or 2009 it does open but according to the program there are no points in the job.
Exit MSCAD, and in either 2008 or 2009 if I invoke an audit there are no reports of errors but the points are showing in both Editors.
Report - 'Databse Test Ok. No Errors found'.
This seems odd.
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Thanks

Postby RJ Breedlove » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:23 am

I too have suspected the scroll wheel as being part of the problem. I've not lost points during one of these crashes, but have several times lost the work performed since the last save or autosave.

My understanding is that MicroSurvey can retrieve the crash reports from Microsoft. I dont know the exact procedures they have to follow in order to do this or how often they check.

Glen keeps stressing to send the crash reports in...
I'm currently working in 2008 for the most part.
I still try 2009 especially on the new projects, but am a little skeptical of the product at this time.
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Return report from Microsoft on submitting error

Postby RJ Breedlove » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:57 am

This is the information I just recieved from Microsoft about my crahses. I've not seen this before but it appears that there might be a newer version of Intellicad.... Should MsCad2009 update? I might have been in MsCad2008 for this crash.... Can't remember now
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below text copied directly from Microsoft Error Reporting Message:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem caused by Intersoft Intellicad

This problem was caused by Intersoft Intellicad, which was created by I.O DATA DEVICE INC.. There is no solution for this problem at this time.

Recommendation

A newer version of Intersoft Intellicad is available for download that might address this problem. I.O DATA DEVICE INC. recommends updating to the latest version of Intersoft Intellicad to take advantage of security and stability improvements.

Go online to the following website to update Intersoft Intellicad:

I.O DATA DEVICE INC.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Postby Richard Sands » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:19 pm

I've had that response from my crashes as reported by you - 'a newer version of IntelliCad is available.....'

Still not sure if we are supposed to inform MicroSurvey when we send in the reports to Microsoft?
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Postby Glen Cameron » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:31 pm

That error info mentions a program called *Intersoft Intellicad*. This is a product sold by:

|Product Name: ArCADia-IntelliCAD 2008 Premium
|Company Name: INTERsoft
|Product Description: ArCADia-IntelliCAD is a powerful and affordable alternative to AutoCAD that is compatible with DWG, ACIS, AutoLISP and ADS. |ArCADia-IntelliCAD Premium has enhancement that is not part of the basic IntelliCAD version, such as raster image support.
|Product Website: www.intersoft.pl
|Language Support: polish
|Main Category: Stand-alone IntelliCAD

The Microsoft error reporting tools have gotten us mixed up with the "Intersoft Intellicad" company - we have no direct affiliation with them but we do both use the same IntelliCAD Engine to power our products being we are both members of the IntelliCAD Consortium. Windows Vista seems to have a generic message that comes up during a crash, telling you that there is a newer version of "Intersoft IntelliCAD", which is mistakenly assigned to our program. You can basically ignore the message Vista brings up.

We have the most current IntelliCAD engine available, in use with our MicroSurvey CAD 2009 product. IntelliCAD is working on the next version and as soon as it is available, we will test it with our software and release a new version shortly after. As long as you are running MicroSurvey CAD 2009 SP#1, then you are as current as we have available at present time.

If you do not have then SP#1 installed, then please go to the following link and download it and install it :http://microsurvey.com/helpdesk/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=347

(This is assuming your maintenance contract is current to allow it to run. If it is not then please contact your Technical Sales Rep to renew your maintenance contract before installing the patch)

To run the MicroSurvey CAD 2009 SP#1 program in Vista correctly, you must right click on the shortcut on your desktop and run as an elevated administrator.

All reports that go to Microsoft, due to crashes with our programs, are accessable by our programming staff. They collect the information from those reports and then work through them looking for patterns, trends, specific code, etc. that needs to be examined. Then they work at getting fixes. After we test those fixes, and have some Beta testers try them as well, we then build the next service patch and release it as appropriate. This does take time, but we are working at it as fast as possible.

You do not need to inform of us when a crash has occured, the reports contain all of the information the programmers require.
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby Richard Sands » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:48 pm

When the crash arrives and we get the option to send report, there's also another option - DEBUG if I remember correctly.
I just clicked that and it instantly ended everything to do with MSCAD - no report or 'Debugging' just closed all.

What does the 'DEBUG' mean?
Is it supposed to give something useful?
Did the Report to Microsoft make it?
2.45pm AEST

regards
Richard
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Postby Gord » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:13 am

Richard Sands wrote:What does the 'DEBUG' mean?
Is it supposed to give something useful?
Did the Report to Microsoft make it?
2.45pm AEST

regards
Richard


If I understand it correctly, debug basically works within your version of Windows and is just a Windows program that will look for conflicts within your machine. Since these crashed are (mostly) being caused by a problem with MSCAD and not your specific machine, I doubt debug will help anything.
On the other hand, if you're getting crashes that ARE caused by your machine, debug may help a bit.
Gord
Keatley Surveying Ltd.
Manitoulin Island
www.keatley.msdcorp.com
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Postby Sthurber » Tue May 12, 2009 9:21 am

I am having the same crash issues with MicroSurvey 2009 as well. Very frustrating! Has anyone been able to get around this problem? I have lowered my graphic card settings from Quality to Performance and this has helped a bit. I seem to go a longer time before the memory error shows up. I have to shut down my computer and restart or else the memory error show up right away after the first crash. I have even noticed that a restart does not work. I have to use shut down in order to use my computer after the crash. Makes me wonder that the Microsurvey code for the graphics card must have a bug.
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Postby Glen Cameron » Tue May 12, 2009 10:33 am

The crashing that most people are running into has been identified and is being solved. We are currently in a BETA test for the next version which contains the fixes. So far all reports have been positive!

The method that is causing the crash for most is the following;
With no command running, they use the mouse to pre-select entities on screen. Then they either right click the mouse button and pick the desired command from this floating menu, or they then pick a toolbar button. This will work many times and then other times it crashes the program.

The best way to work, until the next version is finally released, is to NOT pick the entities before picking the command. In other words, pick the command from the menu, toolbar, or by typing it on the command line - then select the entities from iside the command. This seems to be completely stable.

The next version will be released in the very near future - although no specific date has been set because the programmers are still working on some issues and new features. Once the Beta testing is done, the product will be given another run through internally, and then finalized for release. There will be announcements on this web-site and emails, etc., to let our customers know how and where to find it to download.

All customers with a current maintenance contract will be entitled to it free of charge.

Cheers,
Glen
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MsCad 2010 !!

Postby RJ Breedlove » Wed May 13, 2009 7:54 am

Thankfully, I was accepted into the Beta test program for 2010. They have definitely fixed the crash issue I was having. This looks like it will be a great improvement over all previous MsCad's.
Congratulations to Microsurvey for their determination to produce for us a wonderful program.
I too am sending my crash reports, but they have not been happening as frequently and never for the previous reasons.
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