contouring

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contouring

Postby dale elsen » Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:11 pm

Will try this again;we are not able to find in the help section a method for creating breaklines.There is info on what breaklines do,which we hope will help us stop the contours from going through walls on our plans.The help section gives some info relating to adding breaks to the surface but does not explain how to "create" a breakline.Any help would be appreciated after 3 years of not being able to figure this out.Thankyou!
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Postby rwhatman » Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:10 pm

Why did you wait so long to ask for help. Microsurvey are the best ones to give help.

Let see if I can help.

Break lines are 3d polylines. You just make a layer say break. Join all the
points with the 3d polyline.

Now you just extract that polyline into the model.

The program will then stop the contours from jumping across a ditch or pond.

The contours should look better. You have to play with this because you can over do it.

Now there is Boundary program that may be better for cutting out building.
I will stop contour from passing through.

The best way to use Boundary is to make a boundary with a 2d polyline on the outer edge of you drawing this will cut off all thoes fly away contours. Then draw a 2d polyline around your buildings.

Now the tricky part that I remember and about this is that you pick the outside boundary first, then all the inside boundarys (buildings) second.

Then just draw your contours.

Hope this helps you.
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Breaklines

Postby Glen Cameron » Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:40 am

Breaklines can actually be many different things. The most important criteria is that they are drawn accurately in 3D. We do not have to define breaklines or create breaklines, like some programs. We simply use any 3D linework that you pick, as breaklines.

A breakline can be a 2D Polyline at a specific elevation (like a contour), a 3D Polyline, any Line drawn in 3D, a LWPolyline (added in MSCAD2002 SP#4), and a few other obscure items.

Simply extract your point data first, then extract the breaklines (and pick the 3D linework that you have drawn to represent the brealines). That is it!

Richard also mentioned the Boundary command. The boundary acts like a cookie cutter - draw one polyline around the perimeter of the site to stop and trim the contours and one polyline around each building footprint. Make sure they all close. Then run the Boundary command and pick all of the polylines at the same time. This creates nested boundaries and will stop and trim the contours so they do not go through your building and not go beyond the desired perimeter of the site.

Then draw the contours and they should be fine for you. Do not draw the contours and then try to setup a boundary - the order of operation is imperative here for it to work.

As Richard said - DO NOT WAIT SO LONG FOR HELP! This User Forum is always available - and as long as your Technical Support contract is current, you are welcome to contact me directly for assistance.

Cheers,
Last edited by Glen Cameron on Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby dale elsen » Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:23 pm

Richard,Glen,thX! for quick response on breaklines...we tried it,thought we finally got it but guess not..we drew polylines,3d,along tops of walls,etc,then chose the toolbox item'extract breaks',clicked on these lines; it said we had added the dozen or so breaklines,but when we chose to review what we had chosen,it says NO breaklines in our ground surface. And of course,our contours would probably run thru.everything as usual,based on how tin keeps reaching across acreas it should not go to.Any other suggestions on how to select and KEEP the breaklines?
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Postby rwhatman » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:36 am

If the wall is straight up and down, say stone wall. You can have problems.

Here is my idea. Put the break line only at the bottom of the wall.

See how it looks. If this doesn't work add a break line to the top of the
wall, but I hope your shots are not on top of each other or that the top
of the wall doesn't lean over the bottom or crosses the shots.
You can't cross break lines.

I have done it but you have to take enough shot for the break lines
to get effect you want.

I know program can do it.
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Breaklines

Postby Glen Cameron » Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:49 pm

If you are still having problems, then please feel free to email me the entire job and I will take a look at it and let you know what I find.

Be sure to send me the FLX, MSD, and QSB files for that job.

[email protected]m is my email address.

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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contours using 3-d breaklines

Postby dale elsen » Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:55 pm

Richard- thx again for the instructions,but we are not able to get that far..the basic prob.has been that when we select the breaklines,the pro-
gram will report that we have chosen 6 breaklines.Good.When we chose the icon from the toolbox"display breaklines",it always says no breaklines in surface.We have been using the word"ground"as the surface.Also,we have not been able to save the surface at the end of the day.The following day,we have to one by one select the shots to extract to surface.
The dialogue box for saving a .qsb throws us for a loop each time.There may have been two choices;"save" a surface or "write"a surface?We have been choosing the "ground surface"but next day it is gone.THX for any help with how to use the dialogue box.
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Surfaces

Postby Glen Cameron » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:21 pm

http://www.microsurvey.com/support/shar ... rfaces.htm

This link takes you to one of our many technical notes, on how to save a surface file (QSB file), so it can be read back in the next day. It is found on our support page under User Tips for MSCAD2002.

For the rest of the topic, please contact me when it is convenient next week and I would be happy to look at your job and walk you through doing the steps, if required.

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby rwhatman » Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:09 am

Hi Dale

When you asked it to display the break lines. Thats all it does. Choose the colour blue for your break lines. Now watch very close when you ask
it to display break lines. On my computer it turned the colour brown which could be hard to see if you chose a colour that was the same as the highlight colour.

The entity filter comes up when you pick extract break lines.

Just make sure that polyline is listed in the list before you pick ok.
If it not there just pick rest. Now all objects will be listed.

After you pick OK, just pick the 3d polylines. I think you have done
this.

Now you want save that surface. Easy, but when I was first learning I had the same problem as you. Too many button and which one does what.

Pick Surface Operation button. Now you just to need to pick two of thoes.
buttons to save.

First button, Select ALL. This picks your surface. You can have more then one.

Second button, Write to QSB. Here is where you name and save the surface file to your folder.

Now when you exit the program its going to ask you again if you want to
save. This is you last chance to save. You pick YES, then you still have to
pick Select All, then write to QSB.

If you pick YES, then OK, NO surface is saved as you all ready know.

I hope this helps you with the basics. Now you can send the file to Glen
if you are still not sure.

If you can't figure out what I just wrote, Watch the MOVIES about Contours. Glen did a great job.
Number 8 shows you how to save a surface. If you watch all of them, you
should get a good feel on how to Contour your drawing.

Yes I have read the manuls and they are excellent. I am the only one at
work who has read them. I like the movies the best, you should to.

I think it all covered now. I do believe MicroSurvey do run a instruction
program. I don't know if that is possible in your case.
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Breaklines and Contours for Contours

Postby Max » Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:25 am

Dale,
I know the manul and the videos indicate to draw a polyline around the boundary. I like using a 3D polyline for my boundary, because I use my boundary line as a breakline also. This allows the contours, I believe, to terminate at a point on the bounday more accurately, understanding that there is probably some distoration along the boundary no matter what. I believe I get more accurate contours at the boundary this way. I especially like to this when I try my design surface into an existing one.

Max
Max
 

on attempting to contour w/breaks

Postby dale elsen » Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:33 pm

Richard..worry to belabor this subject but still cannot save breaklines.. tried using the color blue,but they do not show up for a sec as you indicated.We get the message 4 breaklines selected,but that is all. Display breaks button in toolbox results in "no breaklines in surf."Am wondering where you have found this "entity filter"you refer to..there is no such animal when we chose to extract breaklines.This is Microsurvey 2002sp2 on this PC.When we choose the extract breaks from toolbx. it gives a small dialogue bx.w/ 2 choices; make sur.current or clear before extract. This does not appear to be a filtering device.As for the movie on contouring,#8 shows what appears to be a method to save the surface which we have followed with no success: it does the following 1.picks surface operations 2. selects "ground" 3. selects "write qsb",names the file and clicks OK.There is no "save" surface button.We do not mind entering our surface manually each day but it is a problem not being able to creat and save the breaklines. We have been able to work around this by creating fake pts. at critical junctures so the tin does what we want it to do at breaks in the ground.Were you able to create and save breaks with serv.pk#2? We do not wish to change this program unless we have to. Thank you for any new ideas! DE
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Please Call Us!

Postby Glen Cameron » Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:46 pm

Dale - please call us and we will walk you though this.

(I am on vacation this week so please call 1-800-668-3312, 8am to 5pm Pacific Time - and ask for Jason)

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby rwhatman » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:47 am

Dale

I have been able to it all since day one. The program didn't really change
much it just got a lot easier to use. I am sure Glen can help you so I won't go into much detail.

Using SP2 should not matter. The upgrade to SP3 will only take a few minutes if you have high speed internet. Adding SP4 on top of it is only 3 more minutes. The only pain with SP3 is digging out your old CD with
the CD KEY on it. Go for it. SP3 and 4 will not hurt anything that you may have changed or add to the program.

After you picked the button extract break lines the next thing you will see
is the Extract
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Postby rwhatman » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:05 am

Sorry about that just pushed the wrong button before I was done.

Now your at Extract Break lines to DTM surface. You should see GROUND
as your surface name and that there is a check mark at MAKE Surface Current. Now Before this I have assumed you have already extracted a surface called GROUND. Then when you pick OK here is where the ENTITY
FILTER shows up. There should be a list of 15 objects to chose from. Just
make sure that polyline is listed. If not pick reset. Then pick OK.

Now you just have to pick your 3d polylines has your break lines.

If the polylines don't display now. It just means they are not extacted in to the Surface called Ground.

Best of luck with Glen
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Postby fish » Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:24 am

Just an addition to above:
In order for the "Entity Filter" to work make sure "Filter by Entity" is checked under "Modeling - Configuration Settings - Data Extraction".
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Postby dale elsen » Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:31 pm

Fish-you were right,we used the config settings and clicked entity filter-polylines,which we had never done before.For the first time,when we choose display break lines,it does so.We now have breaklines!Now we notice that the tin stops where we want but the contours are drawn with such a great densification that everything is a red blob or black blob where there should just be a half dozen or 10 contours on the entire job site. Any way to get rid of this density without giving up on using breaklines? Thanks again,everyone.
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Postby rwhatman » Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:00 pm

I only use Filter by Entity and Filter by Z

Uncheck Desify during extract

Set your Minumum Z above 0 . Say 100
Set your Maximum Z Say 1000
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Contours

Postby Glen Cameron » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:32 am

It sounds like the contours are going down to zero - which may mean that the breaklines ar 2D and not 3D at the correct elevations. Take a look at the job in a 3D iso perspective and see if the breaklines are indeed 3D.

Dale - I am on vacation this week and have forwarded your sample to the person covering for me while I am away. If it has not been clearded up by the time I return (next Monday) then I will jump into it to help you solve it.

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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