Vertical inverse?

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Vertical inverse?

Postby cbunker » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:56 pm

Using MSCAD 2002, is there a way to get a vertical inverse (difference) between two points? I often need to do this to check field work in which we are carrying elevations.

Thanks
Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
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Vertical distance

Postby Glen Cameron » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:20 pm

If you run the COGO command - the dialog that comes up does show you the N,E and Z of each point. The difference is not displayed as a seperate field but the elevations are shown for both points.

There is another command that does show the vertical distance. Go under the MicroSurvey menu -> Points/Lines/Curves -> 2D Inverse. (or you can type INVERSE on the command line or set it up as an aliase to make it easier to run)
It allows you to either pick the two points or type in the point numbers to inverse between. It gives you Bearing - Hor Dist - Slope Dist - Vert Dist and Grade between the two points.

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby cbunker » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:22 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Glen. Right now I've been using the LISTP command to list the points that I need to check out to the log file, then using a calculator to check the vertical differences. It sounds like the 2D Inverse will do just what I need - check both the horizontal and vertical differences at the same time.

Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
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Postby cbunker » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:29 pm

Oops, spoke too soon - just tried the 2D Inverse command on the following points:
239 N: 5081.744 E: 9771.128 El: 247.476 D: SET/NL/ICE
250 N: 5081.711 E: 9771.116 El: 247.487 D: CHK/239

The vertical difference should be 0.011m, but the INVERSE command gives me:
239 S19°58'59"W 0.035 5081.711 9771.116 250 T

I see the horizontal difference of 0.035, but not the vertical. Am I missing something?

A regular COGO inverse gives me:
239 S19°58'59"W 0.035 5081.711 9771.116 250 T I
which looks suspiciously the same.

Also, the on-line help shows that a second window displaying the results of the 2D inverse should appear, but I don't get this - I just get the single line of text showing up in the log file.

Is "INVERSE" the wrong command?
Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
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Postby rwhatman » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:14 am

Type INVERSE in the command line.

Then pick your two points and you will get a horizontal difference.

The Cogo in 2002 program does not give the difference.
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Postby rwhatman » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:29 am

Well I ment Vertical difference for the "INVERSE" program.
It does give you both and grade.

The Cogo doesn't give you Vertical in the the 2002 program.

Hope this helps
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Postby cbunker » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:44 am

I don't think the INVERSE command gives the vertical difference, just the horizontal... see my previous message.

Thanks
Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
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2D Inverse

Postby Glen Cameron » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:56 pm

What version of MSCAD are you running? Richard and I are both using MSCAD2002 SP#4. If you do not have the newest version then this may explain why your INVERSE command is not giving the dialog (it should).

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby cbunker » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:03 am

I'm using MSCAD 2002, build date June 16, 2003. I believe that's SP4, isn't it?

Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
cbunker
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:22 pm

Postby rwhatman » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:25 am

Chris

I think we have a communication problem.

Did you type the Command INVERSE and not get
what you needed.

What did you get ?
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Postby ianw2 » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:58 am

If you use the "INVERSE" command, you will see a dialog box on the screen.

The HORIZONTAL distance will be displayed along with the SLOPE Distance and the coordinates of both ends of the line.

Using the coordinates you see in the dialog box, you can subtract the little number elevation from the big number elevation and figure out the VERTICAL inverse between the two points.

No one said that there was a display of the inverse value. Why are you hunting for this number? Are you checking 3D inverses between "As Calculated" points and "As Staked" points from you field crew? If so, there are far better ways to get that report.

Ian Wilson, LS CA
Ian Wilson
Ian Wilson Land Surveying, Inc.
Temecula CA 92591
(951) 684-1044
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Postby cbunker » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:07 am

OK, let's start fresh. I created a new test drawing, with two points. They are, with northing, easting, and elevation:

1, 1000, 1000, 0
2, 1000, 1500, 10

I then try the COGO and the INVERSE commands, as a comparison. The command history is:

> COGO

Inverse:Pt..Pt/Curve Inverse:Pt..Pt..Pt
Enter From Point: <1>1..2

1 N90°00'00"E 500.000 1000.000 1500.000 2
Inverse:Pt..Pt/Curve Inverse:Pt..Pt..Pt
Enter From Point: <1>*** Cancel ***

> INVERSE

1 N90°00'00"E 500.000 1000.000 1500.000 2
>

Looks very much like the same thing to me. It doesn't matter if I pick the points on the drawing or enter them manually when using the INVERSE command, I don't get the results dialog box at all - all I see is the normal cogo inverse results in the command window.

As a double-check - choosing 2D Inverse from the MicroSurvey menu does issue the "INVERSE" command, so I am using the right command. Interesting, hmmm?

Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
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Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:22 pm

Postby cbunker » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:10 am

Ian:

From what Glen's original reply to me said, I thought that I would be getting vertical differences between the points.

Yes, what I want is the horizontal difference between a known point and a check shot on that same point. You say that there is an easier way to get this - what is it?

Thanks for your help,
Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
cbunker
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:22 pm

Vertical Inverse

Postby Glen Cameron » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:07 am

Yes - the INVERSE command should bring up a dialog.
(unfortunately I do not know ow a way to show it here)
If you go to the MicroSurvey HELP (help menu -> help) and when it comes up pick on the INDEX button in the top left of the dialog. Then on the list pick on 2D INVERSE (third item down). This should show the dialog I was mentioning.

If you still do not get a dialog then you have a toggle turned off.
Go to your Toggles (on the option bar when not in a command).
Then pick on the Dialogs Tab. Turn the "Show COGO Results" toggle on.

Now the routine should show the dialog I mentioned. The command line will show the horizontal info as you have mentioned. The dialog shows more!

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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Postby cbunker » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:32 am

... and the problem is solved.

Thanks Glen!

(Ian - I would still be interested in hearing of an easier way to do this, if you have one.)

Chris
Chris Bunker, BMath, O.L.S., C.L.S.
T. A. Bunker Surveying Ltd.
150 John St. N., P.O. Box 1180
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V4
cbunker
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:22 pm

Data Display

Postby [email protected] » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:33 am

Glenn:

Can users customize the display bars to eliminate unwanted data?

i.e. On INVERSE only display bearing and horizontal distance?

[email protected] :roll:
[email protected]
 

Display

Postby Glen Cameron » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:19 pm

Sorry - the display options are hard set and you can not change or eliminate anything.

Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
City of North Bay, Ontario
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