MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

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MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:19 am

After working with MSCAD 2013 for about a year now, I have a few observations and/or requests to improve MSCAD 2013 to bring it up to where MSCAD 2010 is (in no particular order of importance):

1.) Entity Property Window. I said my peace (and counted to three) about this and still believe MSCAD2010's Property Window is infinitely better than it is in MSCAD2013! Please refer to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2319

If we are going to be stuck with MSCAD2013's horrid Entity Property Window here are a couple of improvements that could/should be done: Have the selection drop down windows in Layer, Linetype, Justification, etc. start where the selection's property is and not at the top of the choices! e.g. I draw a line on layer S-L-Center, but it needs to be on S-L-Section. In MSCAD2010 when I select properties of that line and go to layer, it starts out on S-L-Center and then I just need to scroll down 5-6 layers to find S-L-Section. However, in MSCAD 2013 it defaults to the top of list (Layer 0) and then I need to scroll through EVERY layer that falls ABOVE (alphabetically) layer S-L-Section! More than mildly annoying!

2.) Snaps! I really enjoy being able to switch snaps while in the middle of a command and having them be retained! MSCAD 2010 retains your selections even when you're finished. More often than not, I don't know what snaps I'll need until I start using the command and MSCAD 2010 forgives you for not knowing, whereas MSCAD 2013 punishes you for not knowing.

3.) Previous Selection - this one is a little more difficult to explain: Some drawings I work on already have text in place, but they are placed haphazardly. Being the OC person I am, I like to have text a set distance from a line, evenly spaced from other text, lined up neatly, etc. So what I do is create a little grid and then just grab the grip for a string of text and then place it on my grid. Then I can slide my grid to the next area and then do the same thing with text in that area. One nice thing about MSCAD2010 is that when I grab a string of text by its grip that is not consider "Previous Selection" under the command options! Whereas in MSCAD2013, grabbing text by its grip is considered a selection so that when I go to use the MOVE command to move my grid I have to select I can't use the "Previous Selection" option because it then uses the last string of text!

4.) Intellicad Explorer - Copying Layers, Linetypes - Supposedly fixed with Intellicad 7.2a, but it's not. In MSCAD2013, when you copy and paste a layer from one drawing to another the Linetype comes up as $0$'Linetype' and not 'Linetype'. When you copy a linetype from one drawing to another instead of replacing that linetype it creates a linetype called "Copy of 'Linetype' (1)". In MSCAD2010 I like that it REPLACES that linetype. I also like in MSCAD2010 that you can CHANGE the PROPERTIES of a linetype, whereas in MSCAD2013 you no longer get the option to see the PROPERTIES of a linetype, let alone change them if you so desire.

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2329

5.) Ability to put toolbars between the drawing window and the command line. I really enjoy that as I always hide my Taskbar and sometimes my mouse gets zealous and decides to drop down low enough to have the Taskbar pop up and thereby covering my toolbars that I placed below the Command window because I couldn't place them between the drawing window and the command window.
Last edited by Eric Anderson on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MSCAD 2013 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:40 am

Another observation:

6.) Trim or Extend using text as the trimming 'line' or extend to 'line'. I don't like that when doing so goes right up to touching the text. I like how in MSCAD2010 there is a buffer zone around the text.
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Re: MSCAD 2013 Observations

Postby fjt_aus » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:47 pm

Hey Eric,

I just want to let you know that you're not alone in your loathing of the new entity property window (and I admire your persistence :wink: ). I have been nodding in agreement to your previous thread, and I want to second every single item you bought up above. The Snaps! Ugh!

Can I just add:

7.) Double-clicking on text in 2013 now brings up the text edit box (instead of the Entity Properties box that opened in 2010). In 2010 if I changed the STYLE of the text it would automatically apply the height change to the selected text. This doesn't happen with the text edit box...I need to manually type in the text height. I does work properly if I use the entity property window on the side, but...property window

8.) I have the dialog box enabled for commands, and I use it to filter selections for various commands. In 2010 I could select entities by TYpe and a further dialog would then open with a whole list of items (text, polyline, line etc). Those same choices would also be listed in the command line. 2013 does neither of these things. It allows me to select by TYpe but then I am left needing to know what to enter into the command line to select the item(s) I want. This might be okay for someone with plenty of CAD experience, but new users would have no idea.
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Re: MSCAD 2013 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:17 am

Just got MSCAD 2014 installed and I see that it's just like MSCAD 2013! :(

Wishing for MSCAD 2010 features as mentioned above.
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:20 am

Eric Anderson wrote:4.) Intellicad Explorer - Copying Layers, Linetypes - Supposedly fixed with Intellicad 7.2a, but it's not. In MSCAD2013, when you copy and paste a layer from one drawing to another the Linetype comes up as $0$'Linetype' and not 'Linetype'. When you copy a linetype from one drawing to another instead of replacing that linetype it creates a linetype called "Copy of 'Linetype' (1)". In MSCAD2010 I like that it REPLACES that linetype. I also like in MSCAD2010 that you can CHANGE the PROPERTIES of a linetype, whereas in MSCAD2013 you no longer get the option to see the PROPERTIES of a linetype, let alone change them if you so desire.


This behavior still exists in MSCAD 2014 v14.3.1.307. :(
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:12 am

Eric Anderson wrote:2.) Snaps! I really enjoy being able to switch snaps while in the middle of a command and having them be retained! MSCAD 2010 retains your selections even when you're finished. More often than not, I don't know what snaps I'll need until I start using the command and MSCAD 2010 forgives you for not knowing, whereas MSCAD 2013 punishes you for not knowing.


This is still driving me bonkers in MSCAD 2014! :mrgreen:
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:02 am

Eric Anderson wrote:1.) Entity Property Window. I said my peace (and counted to three) about this and still believe MSCAD2010's Property Window is infinitely better than it is in MSCAD2013! Please refer to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2319

If we are going to be stuck with MSCAD2013's horrid Entity Property Window here are a couple of improvements that could/should be done: Have the selection drop down windows in Layer, Linetype, Justification, etc. start where the selection's property is and not at the top of the choices! e.g. I draw a line on layer S-L-Center, but it needs to be on S-L-Section. In MSCAD2010 when I select properties of that line and go to layer, it starts out on S-L-Center and then I just need to scroll down 5-6 layers to find S-L-Section. However, in MSCAD 2013 it defaults to the top of list (Layer 0) and then I need to scroll through EVERY layer that falls ABOVE (alphabetically) layer S-L-Section! More than mildly annoying!

2.) Snaps! I really enjoy being able to switch snaps while in the middle of a command and having them be retained! MSCAD 2010 retains your selections even when you're finished. More often than not, I don't know what snaps I'll need until I start using the command and MSCAD 2010 forgives you for not knowing, whereas MSCAD 2013 punishes you for not knowing.

5.) Ability to put toolbars between the drawing window and the command line. I really enjoy that as I always hide my Taskbar and sometimes my mouse gets zealous and decides to drop down low enough to have the Taskbar pop up and thereby covering my toolbars that I placed below the Command window because I couldn't place them between the drawing window and the command window.


Hopefully these features have been restored for MSCad2015! :wink:
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:12 am

Eric Anderson wrote:
Eric Anderson wrote:1.) Entity Property Window. I said my peace (and counted to three) about this and still believe MSCAD2010's Property Window is infinitely better than it is in MSCAD2013! Please refer to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2319

If we are going to be stuck with MSCAD2013's horrid Entity Property Window here are a couple of improvements that could/should be done: Have the selection drop down windows in Layer, Linetype, Justification, etc. start where the selection's property is and not at the top of the choices! e.g. I draw a line on layer S-L-Center, but it needs to be on S-L-Section. In MSCAD2010 when I select properties of that line and go to layer, it starts out on S-L-Center and then I just need to scroll down 5-6 layers to find S-L-Section. However, in MSCAD 2013 it defaults to the top of list (Layer 0) and then I need to scroll through EVERY layer that falls ABOVE (alphabetically) layer S-L-Section! More than mildly annoying!

2.) Snaps! I really enjoy being able to switch snaps while in the middle of a command and having them be retained! MSCAD 2010 retains your selections even when you're finished. More often than not, I don't know what snaps I'll need until I start using the command and MSCAD 2010 forgives you for not knowing, whereas MSCAD 2013 punishes you for not knowing.

5.) Ability to put toolbars between the drawing window and the command line. I really enjoy that as I always hide my Taskbar and sometimes my mouse gets zealous and decides to drop down low enough to have the Taskbar pop up and thereby covering my toolbars that I placed below the Command window because I couldn't place them between the drawing window and the command window.


Hopefully these features have been restored for MSCad2015! :wink:


Bah! None of these were "fixed/reverted" for MSCad 2015! :P

Man, I really, really, really, really, really, LOATH how snaps currently work and the current Entity Property Window...
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Richard Sands » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:25 pm

Eric there are things that can ease your pain.
Say you select an object (I'm in 2015)
need to change its layer. The layer properties changes to the selected entity layer.
layers.jpg
layers.jpg (27.78 KiB) Viewed 12663 times

Click the down arrow and it is actually at the layer of your selected entity.
If you want to change to another layer and you know its name but cant see it, type the first letter of the layer and it takes you to the layers beginning with that letter.

As said in another post below, the way you can work with the Properties in all manner of things is far and above 2010 etc.
This would leave that for dead.

Snaps: Once you get used to the 'new' way then it's second nature.
And if you forget to set any snaps - they are all cleared, then hitting F3 twice opens the snap dialogue box and you are on the way.

Can't help you on your toolbars but do you use Alias's? I seldom use toolbars and with many custom Alias's and shortcuts it is so easy and quick to work.
Don't clutter the screen with endless toolbars but clutter your brain and train it to know those shortcuts.
Less hassle, more productive work and less fretting. Believe me and if you haven't tried then give it a continued use and don't give up on it.

It's only a computer - you're the boss - not it. Make it work for you.

I'd encourage using the command line too. That's what its there for.
I add that as I wonder if you do use it much as it doesn't seem to bother you that gets hidden by the task bar popping up (and that is a pain!) rather the toolbars that get hidden.
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:41 am

Richard Sands wrote:Eric there are things that can ease your pain.
Say you select an object (I'm in 2015)
need to change its layer. The layer properties changes to the selected entity layer.
layers.jpg

Click the down arrow and it is actually at the layer of your selected entity.
If you want to change to another layer and you know its name but cant see it, type the first letter of the layer and it takes you to the layers beginning with that letter.


I can see where that has potential.

Richard Sands wrote:As said in another post below, the way you can work with the Properties in all manner of things is far and above 2010 etc.
This would leave that for dead.


Not seeing that yet. Might have to do with the way I work. ;)

Richard Sands wrote:Snaps: Once you get used to the 'new' way then it's second nature.
And if you forget to set any snaps - they are all cleared, then hitting F3 twice opens the snap dialogue box and you are on the way.


Again, not seeing it. Not use to it. I still feel that while I'm in a middle of a command and switch which snaps are active, those changes should be retained once the command finishes.

Richard Sands wrote:Can't help you on your toolbars but do you use Alias's? I seldom use toolbars and with many custom Alias's and shortcuts it is so easy and quick to work.
Don't clutter the screen with endless toolbars but clutter your brain and train it to know those shortcuts.
Less hassle, more productive work and less fretting. Believe me and if you haven't tried then give it a continued use and don't give up on it.


I don't use Alias's, mostly use toolbar and occasionally the command line.

Richard Sands wrote:It's only a computer - you're the boss - not it. Make it work for you.


PEBCAK

Richard Sands wrote:I'd encourage using the command line too. That's what its there for.
I add that as I wonder if you do use it much as it doesn't seem to bother you that gets hidden by the task bar popping up (and that is a pain!) rather the toolbars that get hidden.


I'm probably just working wrong and haven't learned a better way yet. ;)
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby riroko » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:02 pm

I totally agree with all your points. Especially the property window and the snaps.
However, for the snaps I have a workaround that works for me by editing the commands of the toolbar. Try the following and see if that helps.

You should have the snaps visible as toolbar buttons.
Open the Customize-Toolbar window via Tools or by rightclicking anywhere on a toolbar button and select Customize.
Then click on one of the snap toolbar button, e.g. the one for endpoint.
By default, under Command it is set to
_END
Change this to
'_ENDPOINT

Do the same for all the other snaps:
'_MIDPOINT
'_NEAREST
'_CENTER
'_PERPENDICULAR
'_TANGENT
'_QUADRANT
'_INSERTION
'_NODE
'_EXTENSION
'_PARALLEL
'_INTERSECTION
'_APPARENT

After closing the Customize Window, it should be working as before. The snap-toolbar button appear selected on the toolbar, so you always know what snaps are currently active.

I just don't understand why IntelliCAD isn't using these settings as default.
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Re: MSCAD 2013/2014 Observations

Postby Eric Anderson » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:19 am

riroko wrote:Open the Customize-Toolbar window via Tools or by rightclicking anywhere on a toolbar button and select Customize.
Then click on one of the snap toolbar button, e.g. the one for endpoint.
By default, under Command it is set to
_END
Change this to
'_ENDPOINT

Do the same for all the other snaps:
'_MIDPOINT
'_NEAREST
'_CENTER
'_PERPENDICULAR
'_TANGENT
'_QUADRANT
'_INSERTION
'_NODE
'_EXTENSION
'_PARALLEL
'_INTERSECTION
'_APPARENT

After closing the Customize Window, it should be working as before. The snap-toolbar button appear selected on the toolbar, so you always know what snaps are currently active.

I just don't understand why IntelliCAD isn't using these settings as default.


Sweet chickens!!

Thanks riroko! Works just like MSCAD 2010, which is the way I prefer! :D
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